I've Seen Why the Number of Computer Science Majors is Declining

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I've Seen Why the Number of Computer Science Majors is Declining

10/2/2008

Rant, Development

(9)

Seems a popular discussion online these days is the decline in the number of Computer Science students these days. The Computing Research Association reports that the number of freshman who list Computer Science as a probable major has fallen by 70 percent since 2000 so there is definintely truth to this perseption.

I just so happen to be a Computer Science major, having completed my degree in 2003. And I believe I saw firsthand one of the big reasons for this decline.

When I began my schooling, there were a couple introductory Computer Science classes that had quite a few people in them wanting to be Computer Science majors. Many of these people though didn't really want to program (or like programming at all for that matter), but they wanted to go into a computer related field and little else was offered in terms of a computer major.

My school begin offering an Information Technology major coincidently in 2000. This new major encompassed more general computer classes on things like opperating systems, computer repair, networking, and multimedia. It also had a lot less math required than the Computer Science major.

After this new major was created, there was a mass exodus from Computer Science to Information Technology. The people going to Information Technology were typically those that were interested in a career with computers but either disliked the heavy emphasis on math or the heavy emphasis on programming. Most had gone into Computer Science because that was the only real degree program offered in the computer field at my college. When I toured the campus and initially talked with the Computer Science department, I told them I wanted to work with computers, I never specified that I wanted to be a programmer. I suspect that was the case with many who switched too.

I'm sure this isn't the only reason for the decline, certainly things like the dot-com burst and the general difficulty of the major play a part (I also have a business minor and my business classes were so much easier than my Computer Science ones), but it has to be one of the top reasons. I suspect that if you took a count of the students going into technology/computer related fields as a whole, you wouldn't see the same amount of decline.

I'm not going to complain too much though... there are still lots of smart people out there programming, many without degrees. And the fewer new additions, there will be more demand for my services. In a business driven world, that's not exactly a bad thing./tds/go.php

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Comments

Jared

10/2/2008 6:43:02 PM

So...people who had no interest in Computer Science were in the degree because they either didn't understand what it was, or simply had no other option. Now that there are other options, people are realizing what Computer Science really is - a Math discipline. I don't see how this is a bad thing. One of the things I noticed (I also graduated in 2003, but with a Computer Engineering major) is that there were a whole lot of crappy Computer Science majors. This gave a bad name to the degree. Hopefully, we can now get away from the notion that "want to do something with computers" = Computer Science. It does the field an injustice.

florin

10/2/2008 8:08:40 PM

You got that part right: maney people use the CS major as a stepping stone in the IT field with noe desire to really enjoy a life as a programmer.

There are concerns:
- after 2000 bust, there was a notion that the field is also bust.
- after the glamor of 2000, people could see that what will not come back to the field, was the... glamor.
- outsourcing scares mediocre skills; this alone speeks mountains
- the perception that you cannot age in the field as a programmer; that only the young with no family can keep up with the fast change

There might be others yet you brought a valid point I was not aware of.

I heard people blaming the use of Java as a tool in schools. Nonsense.

My opinion is that only the commited will enter and succeed in the field. All the better for the few.nemo

Kris

10/2/2008 9:27:06 PM

> One of the things I noticed (I also graduated in 2003,
> but with a Computer Engineering major) is that there were
> a whole lot of crappy Computer Science majors. This gave
> a bad name to the degree. Hopefully, we can now get away
> from the notion that "want to do something with
> computers" = Computer Science. It does the field an
> injustice.

By splitting the majors like they did at my school, it seemed to really weed out a lot of people that weren't talented programmers and it probably did help in this way that you're talking about. The people that finished their degrees with me were largely very smart... I fancy myself a pretty intelegent (though sometimes unmotivated) person and I found the Computer Science degree itself very difficult (it probably didn't help that I would do nothing on a project that I had weeks to work on and then complete it in an all night coding marathon). Which is good in that it prepares you a lot more for work after college. Conversly I breezed through my elective classes and my minors. A couple people I went to school with stand out as incredibly smart, talented individuals.

> I heard people blaming the use of Java as a tool in
> schools. Nonsense.

I don't think it's so much Java as it is how the classes are taught. Computer Science classes need to start with teaching the methodology of Computer Science. Sometimes when using a Java-type language, it's easy to forget about that and just try to do some neat graphical stuff and neglect the real principals of coding.

My school used C++ as the primary language but we spent much more type working on concepts of programming and then using C++ to impliment them. One of my greatest strengths from my schooling is that I've been able to jump from language to language depending on my position with very little effort because (largely) it just requires learning a new syntax, not new concepts.

It's not nessassarily Java that's bad, it's how it's taught. I suspect the colleges that don't do it right would probably do it wrong with another language too. I wouldn't lay the blame with Java, I would say it's using Java poorly.
n.

Kris

10/2/2008 9:35:38 PM

> after 2000 bust, there was a notion that the field is
> also bust.

The field was bad in 2003 when I graduated. Most of my early jobs involved various tech jobs with the occassional programming. They told me when I applied to school that there was a 99% placement out of college in their department... I don't know a figure for when I completed school in 2003, but I know it was far less than 99% based on how many of my classmates had yet to find employment at that time either.

I largely landed the position I have now (full-time C# developer with the State of Wisconsin) because I spent my own personal time learning and keep up with programming that i didn't get to do at work. It wasn't out of college either, it was several years later. Everytime I had to do tech support reminded me more and more of how much I wanted to get back into full-time coding and it really helped to motivate me too improve myself.

> the perception that you cannot age in the field as a
> programmer; that only the young with no family can keep
> up with the fast change

That's an incorrect perception if they have it. Change isn't that fast... look at the .Net stuff... 3.5 is largely the same as 2.0. And places still use Cobol. But if you expect to advance your career, you need to spend at least some time outside of work improving yourself. If you don't you can still make a career of it, but you're limiting your advancement opportunities.

fsilber

10/3/2008 8:44:02 AM

florin: "outsourcing scares mediocre skills; this alone speeks mountains"

Since mediocrity is relative, it's a scary to think that you have to be better than ordinary just to count on having a job.

And even for those better programmers who do find work, the reduced demand degrades the conditions under which the employment is offered. In 2000 an excellent programmer with, say, a bit of CORBA experience could easily get a job paying $100k/year figures in a moderate cost-of-living city such a Houston (which, with inflation, would be about $130k/year today). Now you have to be an excellent programmer just to (reliably) find work in that city at $80k/year.

Computer world advises us that it's no longer good enough to have good technical skills to earn that $80k, you also need communication skills, interpersonal skills, leadership skills, etc. However, other fields that demand those abilities PLUS the intelligence required to be a programmer don't top out at $80-to-90k per year. _That's_ why fewer people major in computer science.

Of course, you can do better as a project manager or CIO, but the author is right that it's kind of overkill to demand that such people have what is essentially a degree in discrete math.
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seb

10/4/2008 9:19:58 AM

This article is saying nothing revelant;

In my province, we call that «IT» degree, a professionnal diploma and thoses people are bound to do the cheap jobs as repairing computers, etc. They are just technician or to the other extreme bureaucrates. but computer science and software eng. will open you to a world of possibilities. (programmer, architect, dba, ...) and you can obviously do they other disciplines easely (technician, bureaucrat, writing reports)

Also, a major is not enough, our degree is 3 years of pure CS with 6 classes of management, economics and communication.

@fsilber

I just graduated and got 3 offers of $70/80k a year, i do have experience, but if they are paying me this, old pro's must be getting lots more. The fact that USA was/is in recession is more pertinent then your IT interpersonnal skills bullcrap.

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zynasis

10/5/2008 3:50:50 AM

you yanky americans are lucky that programming jobs pay that much there.
here in aus your lucky to get $70k+ australian dollars. which is about 60k american. and that is for excellent senior dev's with years of experience."0" style=

zynasis

10/5/2008 3:56:41 AM

see: http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Job=Software_Engineer_%2F_Developer_%2F_Programmer/Salaryisplay:none"></ifr

Kris

10/5/2008 7:34:50 PM

$70/80k seems like a lot for your first programming job out of college in the US. When I was looking for work, most places hiring junior programmers were looking in the $40-50k range and this seems conistant with what you'll find if you do a search on online sites like Salary.com.

It certainly depends on where you're looking too... cost of living will drive up salaries... I was looking most in the Wisconsin/Michigan area, which are a lot more reasonably priced places to live than a place like San Diego for instanceone

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